i feel like i’m the only one who ever thought madonna’s justify my love came off suggestive

I want to know you
Not like that
I don’t want to be your mother
I don’t want to be your sister either
I just want to be your lover
I want to be your baby
Kiss me, that’s right, kiss me

Those lyrics are definitely…interesting! I can definitely see how it could be a mother or a sister singing about how they want to be seen as a lover instead. 

Poor is the man
Whose pleasures depend
On the permission of another
Love me, that’s right, love me
I want to be your baby

This part works for incest too, because it sounds like the love is forbidden. 

And then the chorus too works:

Wanting, needing, waiting
For you to justify my love
Hoping, praying
For you to justify my love

If you think about “justifying” the love as being sort of like acknowledging it and legitimizing it even though it’s incest. 

I think that’s a great addition, Anon!

full lyrics

listen

Silverthorn Analysis

berenikekao:

So I’m extra late on this but SILVERTHORN. ALL THE FEELS.

I’m so emotionally invested in this that I have no idea what to do with myself. I’ve stalked the Kamelot tag and all Kamelot related tumblrs and now that I’m done and no one’s updating, my life has no meaning anymore.

So I guess it’s my turn to contribute something to the fandom. Here’s my overanalysis/speculation/epic fangirling of Silverthorn:

The big question seems to be if Blue (I guess that’s what we’re calling the narrator) and Robert are actually twins or if they’re the same person. I for one think that they are definitely the same person.

I think Robert first appears as a separate entity in Torn. The title itself could be a reference to the torment of Jolee’s death tearing him into two identities and the line ‘like a shadow’ might be referring to Robert (a dark double). There’s also the line “Take all my pain away/My friend”, which suggests that Blue created Robert to deal with all of the grief. Random thought: maybe only Robert gets a name because he’s the one acting out on his grief/guilt/torment.

Given that they are the same person, which means that Blue is mentally unstable, is Jolee, as she appears in the songs, really a ghost/angel or is she just a hallucination?

I’m not quite sure about this one but regardless of whether Jolee’s ghost is real or not, I think the siblings represent the Id (Robert- Impulse-driven, self centered and aggressive (hence all the murdering (most evident in Veritas))), Ego (Blue- Rational, conscious of social norms, reigns in Id impulses (He’s the ‘good twin’ who tries to cope with his grief as best he can and does all the things expected of him (goes to school, gets a job, gets married)) and Super-Ego (Jolee- Moral, acts as the conscience (as seen in Veritas and I think in Grace too) ).

Does anyone else get weird incestuous vibes from some of the songs? I know that Aurora also ends up dying, but it’s not until later on so the only song that could possibly be directed at her is Silverthorn and maybe part of Prodigal Son.

I think this actually works well for the story. Silverthorn is about the destruction of a family from the inside out, at the hands of one of its own. Incest pretty much works the same way. When closely related members of the same family love each other just a little too much it fucks with the power dynamics and crazy genetic shit happens which just ends badly for everyone involved and their children. It could also be seen as an expression of narcissism (Robert clearly has delusions of grandeur). Another thing to consider is that in a lot of landed, titled or otherwise wealthy families of the same era, marrying within the family was a way of protecting the family’s wealth. So perhaps for Blue/Robert, being in love with their sister was a way of protecting the family while heeding to their destructive impulses. It also adds to the torment and angst.

Speaking of destructive impulses, what exactly is Robert’s motive for killing everyone?

Maybe he feels like his family is responsible for his problems (dad abused him, his mom neglected him, Jolee died, which made him feel guilty and tormented even though it was an accident) and all the killing was for revenge. Or maybe he was trying to bring the family together again (families usually gather for funerals; Robert also used the death of another relative to lure Blue back).

Maybe he’s Blue’s masochistic side and he’s punishing himself, especially with killing Aurora.

I think he resents that Blue is moving on with his life because it threatens Robert’s very existence since the whole reason why Robert’s around is because Blue invented him to deal with the grief that he himself didn’t want to face (And if we’re going with the whole incest thing, Ghost/hallucination!Jolee’s existence might also cease to exist because Blue’s feelings for her have transferred to Aurora (which is interesting in and of itself because it says something about the female characters and how they exist as plot devices for the development of male protagonists), which would awaken Robert because it would be like Jolee died all over again. Maybe (because the story seems to be based on the gothic horror genre and the double seems to be a popular trope) Aurora is Jolee’s double (like how Robert is Blue’s double). I imagine Aurora would be the type of woman Jolee might have grown into if she hadn’t died).

Given all of that ^ I think that in the end Robert takes over and the prison that Blue is in at the beginning is actually in his mind (the lines “Someone will always lose” and “As I lay you down to sleep all your tears are mine to keep” could mean that only one of them will survive and the other one will just be assimilated). And because Robert’s in control and his mind is fixated on the past, Blue is sent back to relive Jolee’s funeral (hence Prodigal Son, which flashes back again).

I also think that Solitaire complements Torn and Sacrimony pretty well in that whereas in Torn it’s just Blue singing and Robert’s personality is just starting to emerge, in Solitaire both voices are heard but Blue’s personality has just started to assimilate to Robert’s. Also, the line “I can’t turn water into wine” seems to go against the line “I’m torn by the thorns on my head”, which compares Blue to Jesus.

And whereas in Sacrimony Blue calls out to Jolee to give him comfort and salvation and she answers him, in Solitaire Robert calls to Jolee so that he can feel love again but she never appears within the song. However, the lyrics of Grace do suggest that she does come to him and offers him salvation as well (“You’re falling from grace”, “You won’t be condemned”).

So yeah, those were my ramblings on Silverthorn. I might add to them later.

Saw a post a while ago about Kamelot’s Silverthorn album and wanted to rec this video bit. ly/1DXMP3f. It gives a good (if narmy) summary of the story and there are some shippy moments between the lead singer (who sings the narrator’s pov) and one of the guest singers (who sings the sister’s pov). Other shippy songs are Grace (probably the sister’s pov though it’s the guy’s voice), Song for Jolee, Veritas and Falling Like the Fahrenheit. Here’s an analysis of the whole album bit. ly/1EEGQoC

Hello!

Yes, someone recommended Silverthorn a couple of years ago, which was really cool, because to this day it remains the only concept album on my music page

The video for Sacrimony that you gave the link to is great. I didn’t even consider that there might be music videos. It’s really cool to have those visuals to go with the lyrics. I love the happy flashbacks of them all playing as children (you know, before all the terrible happens). And you’re right, it’s a good summary of the story. 

REALLY loved all this: 

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And then this is so sadddddddd:

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And thank for the link to that analysis, that’s awesome and so helpful. It’s really thoughtful and I love that it talks about the incest vibes.

Thank you so much for all of this, Anon. It’s good to have more Silverthorn stuff on here and this all really rounded out my knowledge.